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Fiona_in_tassie
Forum Tragic
Username: Fiona_in_tassie
Post Number: 6613
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 02:12 pm:
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Grace never used to be what I would call "hot", but she always had issues with the walk in tests. She just can't see the point in walking when you are only going to trot and canter again, so she thinks we may as well jog...
Now that she is working at a higher level she has become much hotter. She seriously thinks she is Cinderalla which makes for great trot and canter work (when it stays controllable), but we have lost the walk altogether. Why walk when you know extended canter and changes are coming up next??
Soooo please give me your tips for getting the hot, anticipating horse to walk in the first place, and then maintaining it? I can't push the walk on and ask for more or she trots - I can't pick up the reins and shorten the walk or she trots...
The only thing that sometimes works is making sure I am very strict about maintaining alternating leg aids to reinforce that we are walking - but that doesn't always work.
Heeeeeelp! We have a medium test next weekend and there ain't no point being brilliant in the trot if we can't walk.... at all.....
siabb
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Username: Siabb
Post Number: 375
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 02:22 pm:
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I used to have a hot TB years ago, who wouldn't walk would only jog.
The only thing that worked was doing a small circles everytime he jogged. Didn't take him very long to learn that it was easier to walk than do small circles.
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 265
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 02:22 pm:
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Oh... i have exactly the same problem!
Dont really have any tips for the test, but, When at home, i find flexing the neck from side to side can help 'loosen' up the tenseness in the neck and back and unlock the stiff jog. If that doesn't work i will try all lateral work in walk untill i get a little relaxation and attention and then a walk. Walk pirouettes can also be really handy, if they go to jog as you come out of the pirouette, i will leg yield out, making it more difficult for them to jog. lots of halt - walk - halt transitions can help overtime as well, even if it's just at the start of the ride.
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 266
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 02:26 pm:
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Also, i know it's hard in a test situation, but i always try to mix everything up, so will try to confuse the horse into listening to me so they cant/dont pre-empt everything. So i might do one rein back to canter trans. then rein back, walk, halt. rein back - trot. Am constantly trying to throw a 'spanner in the works', even if he starts to pre-empt an exercise i am about to do, i will have to change it mid way through to get his brain on me again... damn smart, hot horses!
Acacia
Forum Tragic
Username: Acacia
Post Number: 6758
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 02:42 pm:
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I can only comment from an eventer's perspective and dealing with a couple of hot horses.
The best thing I found was doing a lot of walk in addition to normal work. Just walking around the paddock, or walking down the road, with some halt transitions thrown in. It is good for learning to associate walking with "ahh relax" rather than "I wonder what she is going to ask for next!" There was a good article on this in THM last year, look for Emma Mason's article on getting a dressage test out of a hot horse.
Good luck!
Fiona_in_tassie
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Username: Fiona_in_tassie
Post Number: 6615
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 03:37 pm:
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Thanks guys. Her walk in most situations isn't bad, but she's a smart horse and she knows that the walk in a dressage test is always followed by faster work - she so figures she might as well just skip the walk.
D_elle, her walk pirouettes are very good when she is relaxed, but this morning I couldn't get them at all cos I couldn't get the walk, she was just thinking about the upcoming canter - aarrrgghh!! Agree that lateral work in the walk works well though, I usually do a lot of that in my warm up.
Any other good ideas out there?
Pip squeak
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Username: Squeak
Post Number: 552
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 03:41 pm:
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My little mare used to have no walk whatsoever - she would jig-jog and fiddle around, no solid walk.
I would spend whole sessions just walking, changing rein, shortening/lengthening her frame, lateral work, all in walk walk walk. If she went to jog we would halt, then start again. It took a while, but she eventually got the hang of it.
My 2 proudest moments with her have been getting 8s in our last test together for her walk movements (elementary level), and also watching her walk the entire grand parade at Perth Royal with her new owner last year without a jig-jog.
Pip squeak
Forum Tragic
Username: Squeak
Post Number: 553
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 03:43 pm:
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oh - forgot to add - in a couple of early tests before we had it completely consolidated if she jogged I threw the movement away by halting her and starting again in walk. I'd rather look at the long term picture than let her get away with it in one test!
Fiona_in_tassie
Forum Tragic
Username: Fiona_in_tassie
Post Number: 6617
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 03:46 pm:
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Good thinking Pip Squeak, perhaps tomorrow I will do an entire session in walk.
Over the years Grace has got worse about doing it in tests, in early tests we just had the occasional jog, but she almost always does it now - it drives me crazy! Might have to try halting in my tests, embarressing though that is (then again so is falling off in the flying changes and that is looking like a distinct possibility at the moment )
Shakia
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Username: Shakia
Post Number: 3946
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 03:48 pm:
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I either do the small circle or halt if Shakia jogs. Its taken a while but she has almost stopped doing it. I also ask for trot while still on a loose rein and then sometimes shorten my reins but ask for a halt instead. I am trying to teach her that shortening of the reins does not mean we are going to be doing an upward transition. Or even shorten the reins and do some shoulder in. I find if I can give her something to do in the walk, she is less likely to jig jog.
Tara
Forum Tragic
Username: Tullaroi
Post Number: 3385
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 03:58 pm:
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FiT, i can understand EXACTLY what your on about, the number of tests that we have jig jogged instead of free walk across the diagonal and then at the end of the test walked out half asleep and judge has actually written a comment about how nice the final walk out was compared to within the test!! my girl knows too, i too have done sessions of almost all walk, sometimes i'll warm her up, do a little trott and canter then the rest walk, that tends to really enforce it rather than walk for the whole session. as others say circles or stopping, but do it calmly, not rip around in a circle or yank into halt like i've seen ppl in the warmup arenas doing *Cringes*
Fiona_in_tassie
Forum Tragic
Username: Fiona_in_tassie
Post Number: 6618
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:00 pm:
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Exactly Tara! I wonder if this is a smart mare thing? I don't think I've ever had this issue with geldings, they just go "oh goody, an opportunity to walk and take it easy".
Kristen
Forum Tragic
Username: Mc_auslan
Post Number: 423
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:02 pm:
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With Jeffrey I have recently just been doing medium walk at home, no collected walk. I've been going into canter from medium and then collecting him in the canter. His walk has really improved so much.
Also leg yielding when they get tense in the walk really helps, if they break into trot leg yield quite steep until they come back to walk. Just make it harder for them to trot than it is for them to walk so they choose to walk.
Half ten meter circle serpetines in the walk also helps to lengthen the walk stride. I have done much work on walk with Jeffrey!
Tara
Forum Tragic
Username: Tullaroi
Post Number: 3387
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:04 pm:
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Yes I would agree with the smart mare idea! she's is a very clever girl this one! I've tried SO many things, really relaxing and basically NO aids, keeping the rhythm with my legs left, right, left, right, softening hands, flexing etc and she just KNOWS, she is much better than she used to, we dont have too much trouble with medium walk, just the free walk so i've got her to learn long and low (Previously she just wouldn't do it) and that is helping, as soona s she jogs, she's given the long and low aids, that way im doing SOMETHING but not in a 'up and forwards' way, if that makes sense...
Adelatus
Forum Tragic
Username: Adelatus
Post Number: 1115
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:10 pm:
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I went to my first comp in many years recently and buggered up the walk in the first two tests. My main goal for the last test was to get the walk! He almost barely jogged at the beginning of the walk near K, but the judge didn't notice!
So since then, I've been throwing in lots of short free walks, like for half a circle, regularly throughout my rides, and this seems to be helping.
The small circles and halting has never worked on my horse. I wouldn't call him hot either, he's just keen and anticipates.
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 267
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:14 pm:
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Mine is a gelding! So, not sure about the 'just mare' thing He is an arab though...
Tara
Forum Tragic
Username: Tullaroi
Post Number: 3388
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:14 pm:
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haha Delle, mine is an Arab Mare!! double trouble
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 268
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:15 pm:
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LOL Tara
Tara
Forum Tragic
Username: Tullaroi
Post Number: 3389
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:18 pm:
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Forgot to add, a CHESTNUT arab mare
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 269
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:22 pm:
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Is she purebred?
Most ppl mistake Elvis for a mare (cause he's so pretty) and he acts more like a mare... We call him a 'queen' hehe
FIT - perhaps you can go out and just try your best for the walk, but give your all for the rest of the movements. That way you won't be too dissapointed with the walk.
(Elvs & I have just started training medium, and we have to plan what we are going to work on, otherwise he becomes too hot in the canter,flying changes & walk )
Tara
Forum Tragic
Username: Tullaroi
Post Number: 3390
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 04:26 pm:
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She's anglo but only a little TB in her. the male arabs are very pretty so yes can look a bit girly cant they
Thats a good point D_elle makes, at least in dressage the movements are each marked individually so a little muck up doesn't ruin it entirely ( i know at the time it feels like it does though)
ETA thats her there
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(Message edited by tullaroi on April 12, 2009)
Fiona_in_tassie
Forum Tragic
Username: Fiona_in_tassie
Post Number: 6619
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 05:11 pm:
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Mine is an anglo mare too.
Unfortunately in the test I am doing next weekend, there's quite a bit of walk - extended, medium, collected and pirouettes - lots of marks to lose!
And then I will fall off in the 'expressive' changes.
My trot work had better be damn good.
Tara
Forum Tragic
Username: Tullaroi
Post Number: 3396
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 05:14 pm:
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Well well fancy that, its an anglo!! haha i love them, they are 'challenging' at times but they are so clever and once they 'get it' they really do get it!
Often double marks for walk too isn't it, why dont you warm up as normal then do the rest in walk and try the cirlces or stopping? even do a 'test' all in walk?
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 274
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 05:18 pm:
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LOL what a kwinky-dink!
Can you warm her up when you get there and do the canter work/changes. put her away, then warm her up again before test just working on walk and trot? if you have to canter, only canter from trot and downwards transitions back to walk?
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 275
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 05:29 pm:
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P.S Mine is pure arab Must counteract the 'mare thing' LOL
Toffee
On the Lead
Username: Toffee
Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 05:55 pm:
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Hi Fi, Lots of repetition in walk usually does it. So lots of extended or free rein walk and picking the reins back up again. If they come above the bit and/or jog, same deal again. Very boring and very repetitive but you have to take the anticipation out. The other suggestions are good to re transitions in walk etc. At home don't do the canter (or trot) transition unless you have her in the walk. At the comps you have to be a bit forgiving but at home, she doesn't get to do anything exciting until she walks. Have fun. Nice to see she is back firing again.
Toffee
On the Lead
Username: Toffee
Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 05:59 pm:
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And making sure they stay soft in the body and aren't tight or blocking. A bit of bending etc and making sure she is through her whole body rather than getting tight. You have to try and get them walking with their whole body. She won't jog if her body is loose. Try and get rid of any stiffness or tightness in her back or neck and put her rounder and deeper.
Jas Lodge
Forum Tragic
Username: Janis
Post Number: 3221
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 06:03 pm:
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I dont know how old yourhorse is but with ours if they think they are smart enough to know the pattern & want to hurry it up we change the pattern. They expect whats coming up next & for us its not a good thing so we need to mix it up. I wouldnt worry about practising a test if she knows it, more work just walking around & not trot or canter work might bring her back. we work on what they dont like not what thy do like or expect. Just an idea.
Tony
Forum Tragic
Username: Tony
Post Number: 3093
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 06:21 pm:
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Medium test next weekend? Cant get walk this weekend? You're screwed.
(so much for that arena sour horse of yours Miss Fifi. Me thinks the bareback bush and beach rides have done their job nicely)
Staycee
Forum Tragic
Username: Colourules
Post Number: 293
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 07:18 pm:
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Yep. Turn him in small circles every time he goes to trot. He will get pretty sick of this.
Make sure you change the direction though because he will get smart.
Neville
Forum Tragic
Username: Neville
Post Number: 1927
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 07:58 pm:
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Fi
Nev is the hottest of the hot, and I have had so many issues in the past wih walk. I was given a pearl of information once, that has helped me immensly with this. It sounds strange, but when you are walking...imagine..
you are peddling a bicycle backwards.
Yep, very odd, but totally works. I used to do the alternating tap thing with no effect, and if all else fails I still do small circles, but I still check and re-check that I am peddling backwards.
Oh and one other thing- make sure you keep your legs on. Its very easy to take the legs off in response to a hot horse. As another equeser has recently shown me, legs on is a good thing
D_eLLe
Forum Tragic
Username: D_elle
Post Number: 278
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 08:44 pm:
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Interesting Neville. I will have to try that one out!
Show Pony
Forum Tragic
Username: Woodsy
Post Number: 5973
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 08:46 pm:
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not sure, but will be thinking of you fi xoxo (maybe go on a relaxing trail ride so she knows its not all about waiting for the next command)
Fiona_in_tassie
Forum Tragic
Username: Fiona_in_tassie
Post Number: 6622
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 02:47 pm:
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Thank you so much everyone, lots of good ideas there!
Neville I really like the peddalling backwards idea, I will try that tomorrow.
Kippy
Off Training Wheels
Username: Kippy
Post Number: 60
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 05:46 pm:
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I have had a similar problem, which reappears from time to time. Important to do lots of consistant things EVERY time.
Always use your alternating legs softly against her side no matter whether long, collected, medium or extended walk (this indicates to her we are in walk mode). From a long rein walk quietly pick up the reins (keep your legs gently pulsing in the rhythm), if she goes to jog, quietly halt. And repeat, and repeat, and repeat.... Same for medium to collected. She's just not allowed to jog. And when she does it nicely and doesn't jog - big pat, relax.
OK, so it gets tricky when what you really want to do is work on something like walk/canter transitions. Something that's going to get her excited and anticipating, so do right at the end of your work session when she's feeling a bit tired, but you still have to be prepared to say, no you don't get to jog, walk/halt, walk/halt... and it's always a nice thing to end the session on when it's been done nicely.
At competitions, I only do walk late in my warm up, but I always do it, to remind my girl what the rules are, and I mix it up like I do at home. I still find I have to be very subtle and relaxed, and have the right rhythm with my legs, when picking her up after the diagonal in a test, but she's pretty much OK now.
So, Fi, no quick fix, better find plan B for next weekend, but it will work if you are really determined and really consistent.
gw sceptic
Forum Tragic
Username: Lou
Post Number: 3499
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 08:02 pm:
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It's hard isn't it. But she gets her back tight. In the collected work it's so easy for the horse to slide into 'cheating' and before you know it they are no longer over and through, especially in the walk.
I would also not do collected walk for now, but do a full medium / long rein walk as often as possible, so it eventually becomes habit to walk and stretch. The pick her up, do some collected walk, and back to a long rein walk. Lots of transitions within the walk.
You know you'll be able to get her back OK.It's going to take time and patience.
They are so smart, especially the mares. But let her learn to be even smarter.
Dressage on fit eventing TBs is a good educator.
Fiona_in_tassie
Forum Tragic
Username: Fiona_in_tassie
Post Number: 6625
Registered: 06-2003
Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 08:05 pm:
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So true Lou, the back is tight in the walk!
Sounds like lots of repetition and changing between types of walk is the go. |
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