Wednesday,
March 20, 2002 - 11:42 pm
I don't
know about others, but I have had it with the crap being dished up to the
Horseworld by the two major Saddlery chains.
I feel they are single handedly responsible for dragging the quality of
available saddlery down in this country to the point where it is virtually
impossible to buy anything decent at all.
What this is doing is draining the available dollars out of the system due
to the endless return to the saddlery to buy the new replacement of the
same piece of crappy gear you purchased last time, to the point where the
Industry is starting to suffer financially as the consumer, the horse
owner, finds it harder to make ends meet.
This effects the financial well being of proffessionals in the Industry,
Instructors, farriers, all the way along. Now b4 those of you say,
"But you get what you pay for", I for one do not think we do.
The market has been flooded with the cheapest of cheap junk, made in India
and China and this has killed the Saddlery trade, tanneries and God knows
what else. The majority of horse people never complain and just go and buy
another one.
Last year, I kicked up a stink about a certain line of boots being sold
throughout Australia. In the end they were withdrawn, made right and the
Asians and Importers were taught a lesson.
So without going on any further at this stage, let me just complain about
bell boots this week.
Saddleworld have three types. The rubber ones that I defy any lady to put
on a horse. The rubber with velcrow which lasts no time flat and get lost
every time the velcrow comes undone because it is a stupid design and
substandard product and then there is the new wafer thin lookalike leather
of about half a mill thick, stuck on something that looks like poly
styrene.
Well, isn't that going to protect a horse with a steel shoe, horse
weighing 450kg moving at 20 K. Puke.
So how about importing some quality product for a change Mr. Horseland and
Mr. Saddleworld. I bet you can't, because the quality makers have been
killed off and you know why.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 12:36 am
Lunging
rollers ... the tacky leather and webbing ones. The d's pull out with the
slightest pressure. The stitching rots in no time flat.
I'd gladly buy a better one. I'd happily pay four or five times the price
if I could find pony size ones ...
And working bridles ... HATE the plastic ones ... and the cheap leather
ones NEVER fit anything I've ever owned. I'm still using work bridles I've
owned for 25 years ... but wish I could replace them! And I draw the line
at paying several hundreds of dollars for a bridle for 'every day'.
So I'm with you HP.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 04:34 am
I
remember Phil had a lot to say about this issue quite some time ago and
how it was causing the demise of the Australian saddlery industry.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 07:26 am
I
totally agree too. I want quality stuff and am happy to pay for it. Would
be happy to never go into those chain stores again. Soooo to help that why
don't people come on here and tell us about good gear that is well made
etc. That way we can vote with our feet and more importantly money! Any
independant shops around? Or internet sites?
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 08:17 am
I would
like to complain (with these two chains) about the lack of pony equipment
mostly rugs. Do these stores think that anything that needs under 5 ft
doesnt deserve a rug. If they offer to "order one in for you"
only the cheapest, crappiest rugs are available under 5 ft. Thank god for
the internet where I can order pony rugs and they are delivered within a
few days. Sorry this has bugged me for years lol.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 08:34 am
As an
ex saddlery owner, let me give you my side of the story.
1/ People do not want to pay for quality, in our shop we stocked either
end of the market, and when we put in quality most of it sat on the shelf
and was still there when we got out. This was across the range, jodpurs,
bits, hats, boots, rugs etc..... People want to pay cheap and buy top of
the range.
2/ The availabitly of purchasing quality stuff at a reasonable price for
the saddliers in high ner impossible, to be able to then sell it at a
profit (after all business is about profit).
3/ Now personally myself I tend to buy top of the range as I class, fit,
comfort and lastability to be a priority for myself and my horses. Sadly
HP the same people that treat their horses with little thought do so
across the spectrum, ie buy cheap, the blooody horse is not worth it was a
sound I heard everyday. We did stock those cheap saddles (hated it) we
used them to sell of, buy showing the lack of quality and most of all the
awful things they could do to the horse fell on deaf ears most of the
time.
4/ You will always get a few that buy quality and there are those
saddleries around that still offer this, Hannoverian, Wagners etc they
will tell you themselves how most of there income comes from around 10% of
the market where as the other 90% shop to buy cheap.
I agree that a lot of the stock available today is shocking, which is why
I get my bridles made as well as my rugs, still looking for that perfect
lunging cavassen guess I will have to get that made also.
It is a sign of the times, even Country Road is made in some asian country
where the labour is cheap, and if you walk into any designer wear store
you will find few shoppers, go to K Mart however and the shops full, same
senario. Cheers
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 08:36 am
Sigh..
yeah I bitched about the lack of a "quality" range to my local
Horeseland Store.
We gave up carrying quality tack .. nobody would buy it .. is the stock
answer.
Can I just suggest that everyone go down to the tack room and try to find
something genuinely australian in their tack room...
There was a long piece on Auntie's radio yesterday that I didn't catch all
of ... but the summary was that we are consuming ourselves into Argentina
like bankruptcy through the purchasing of products made overseas ..or made
in Australia by Overseas Companies where the profits go offshore.
New age political speak cans Whistle Blowers.. and Jingoism is a dirty
word...
We present as a mob of cringing apologists instead of proud and
independent...
The spirit of Eureka.. what spirit of where ???
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 09:00 am
My
mother (and probably everyone elses
) used
to say - Buy the best and look after it? Well unless you have the
proverbial money tree in the backyard its a damn hard call nowadays -
especially if you have growing children (and they eat like horses) and
horses (and they eat like growing children)!
Other Queenslanders will probably remember Uhls in the Valley - long gone?
You might buy something from them once and it would last a lifetime or
more!
Maybe this is why little cottage industries are starting up again - rugs
are an example - they can produce a quality product and because of low
overheads not put a huge markup on them? There certainly seems to be
opportunity there for other things.
The sentiment of buying the best (Australian made) and looking after it is
one I like but the reality is most of us have to watch what we spend and
sadly that means sacrificing quality to price sometimes. Now I try to do
without it - until I can afford quality - Hard/impossible sometimes
though. And this is weird - check out the label on your Thomas Cook
moleskins - HWMBO's are made in Australia and mine (stretchy ones) are
made in China???
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 09:32 am
Hmmm....I
think the problem is that that they don't have the middle of the range
items that you can use for everyday.
Down here bridles for example, you either have a saddlecraft for $39.95 or
a Dublin for $69.95 or then you have a Carlton for $200 odd or a Malyburne
for $400 odd.
Now for an everyday bridle the saddlecraft and dublin only tend to last
for about 12 months, and I can't afford $200 odd for an everday bridle to
go trail riding around the farm.
I actually did buy an indian leather bridle from a small local feed shop
dealing in a few bits and pieces, I paid $25 dollars for it and that was
about 4 years ago and it is still going strong, I keep it regularly oiled
and its as soft as.
I would have to say that the only true Australian made thing I can think
of in my tack shed is my boyfriends stock saddle that he had custom made
in QLD when he was a Jackaroo, and it would have to be the best quality
saddle I have ever seen or ridden in, and he only paid about $900 for it
new.
Anyway had my spill...........
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 10:03 am
Yup,
all my Aussie made gear is ancient - but still going strong!
I have a 15" child's stock saddle that I've had for 12 years and it
was far from new when I got it. It looks as good, if not better, than when
I got it. Also have a pony show bridle that I got 2nd hand, and it is in
marvellous condition.
I don't understand why the same market that will pay hundreds for a
Weatherbeeta rug won't buy good leather gear. The leather gear will last
much longer if you look after it. Indian stuff can do the job, but you're
taking a risk, as some of it will fail under the slightest strain.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 10:06 am
I have
to agree HP..must be careful due to sponsorship so will remain
anonymous...I have gear ..top boots for example I paid good $$ from
Hannoverian over 10 yrs ago and they are still brilliant. I love my pikeur
jods have not found anything remotely comparable...yep they are expensive
but the are fabo comfy and last really well. I guess largely you get what
you pay for but in the long run you pay alot less as this stuff LASTS!
Bought some beautiful leather webbed reins from Wagners which are also
superb...I'll always go quality over quantity...all ends up cheaper in the
long run..I bought 4 halters at a clearing sale for $20..leather ,brass
fittings just THE BEST! I still have my 1st horses bridle! And that was
bought a loooong time ago!
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 11:14 am
Putting
aside the issue of buying Australian, which we all should be trying to
do... is the actual quality of the goods stocked by the chains really that
bad? I have never really had a problem with things falling apart or
wearing out. My only bridle for my mare, which I use for both 'work' and
showing/dressage (shock horror!), is a $60 Dublin bridle I bought about 5
years ago. I just keep cleaning and conditioning it, and it does the job
just fine!
And regarding "buying quality" - I simply can't afford to most
of the time. I buy good feed, good wormers, saddles that fit - all the
stuff that is going to affect the horse's wellbeing - but all the other
accessories, I buy at the cheaper end of the market. And in all honesty,
I've never had any problems!
Not wishing to quibble, just thought it was worth noting an opposing
view...
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 11:15 am
I've
just been thru the frustration of trying to find a snaffle bridle to fit a
13.2hh pony. Now I KNOW that she's not the only pony that size but I've
had to buy a cob size & pay extra to have most of the straps
shortened. It's just for pony club but REALLY couldn't these big stores
stock realistic sizes? Years ago you could go into Charltons with head
measurements & they'd make you a nice bridle from decent aussie
leather for not much more than the cost of these cheap imports. The chain
stores now just aren't interested - buy what they've got or go without.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 01:01 pm
The
original poster has put my thoughts about horse retail in Australia down
exactly as I feel about them also. Long ago I gave my purchases of horse
gear to overseas suppliers due to lack of quality of product or service
available here.
In response to the post from md, I disagree that the horse-person buying
behaviour is based primarily on price. Don't confuse value for money
purchasers with pure price purchasers. The problem with the horse retail
industry is the staff have no training as salespeople and don't have the
ability to position a quality product with a higher price point with the
customer. So the products that the store is most successful in selling is
low end price point products.
By contrast, call CAM Equestrian in the UK (from Australia). They cover a
wide range of product from the very low end to the custom fit high end.
Their salespeople sell consultatively and squeeze every last dollar out of
your credit card whilst you enjoy the experience.
The Clothes Horse in NZ have taken Customer Relationship Management to new
heights for remote customers like myself. They proactively sell to me on a
monthly basis - via email, completely customised to my needs. They absorb
most of my available horse spend on product per month that would have been
spent with an Australian organistation had they actually known how to
sell.
So I think the problem is twofold - poor product and no sales skills.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 02:51 pm
It
sounds as though you all need to find a good saddler who will ake for you
- protection boots, stirrup leathers, over reach boots, bridles etc. These
if made well WILL last a lifetime.
This is the only way to beat the BIG chain stores & keep your dollar
in your community. If you ever have any problem with these goods you can
return to the maker not to some sales girl who really doesn't give a poop
about you.
So go to it guys - check your yellow pages - they are out there now - but
not for long if we don't support them & just keep buying from the big
stores cause they "Look Good"
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 03:35 pm
Sorry
Alison, I am not confused, have you ever owned a saddlery? Well I have,
You see things a little differently there, you also have to remember that
what city people will pay, sometimes the country folk will not.
In regards to staff being taught how to sell the qualtiy products, you
obviously no nothing of the training and developement that goes into the
staff of these establishments, both my partner and I are sales people,
horse people, and our staff were very very good, we didn't claim to know
everything, but each of us had a different area of expertise and used each
others strengths.
These companies do their research, they are not stupid. As I said before I
personally buy quality and made to measure, most wouldn't be interested
due to the cost factor.
All of the above posters have very valid points but in todays market, the
saddlery that just tries to keep the odd one or two customers happy
wouldn't be in business for long, we made our mistakes trying to stock
good quality items.
Cheers
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 06:05 pm
The
problem buying quality saddles here is that these big name saddle stores
put HUGE marked up prices on them.
Eg: A KN for $3,395.00 at one chain, you can import yourself for around
$2,400.00 easily.
I know european leather is expensive and some quality saddleries have to
purchase this leather and then put man hours into making them, so I can
appreciate that.
You do get what you pay for but shop around.
You get better service at the smaller businesses and better advice
generally.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 06:09 pm
These
are the sorts of things that put alarm bells into my head.
I use RM Williams greenhide hobbles. To support our heritage, because they
have always been top quality and because they don't mark horses.
18 months ago, I brought one set. Great quality and handled the work with
no effect.
12 months ago, I brought two more sets. When they handed them to me I
complained that they were not the normal standard, bla, bla. The manager
assured me, no worries and away I went, muttering under my breath.
Three months later, both pairs were stuffed. Stretched to hell, holes
ripped through from one to the next, to the next. Took them back and
demanded new ones. Two weeks later, hadn't heard a thing. I had left the
two crap pairs there plus one of my good ones as the comparison. I emailed
folks on high in RM. Answer came back, they have lost both my old sets
plus my good one. They will replace them with new sets. Problem was
though, there was only one set in South Australia (we have a factory here,
the other had to come from Sydney and it was the only set in NSW. Received
both sets finally, substandard. Didn't complain, all too hard at this
stage but emailed the big boss about it. He advised me that RM Williams
cannot buy greenhide anymore and they will now not be making any more
hobbles.
Isn't that just lovely. An Australian Icon down the tubes and reduced to a
jeans factory. Old RM would no doubt turn in his Grave if he were in one.
If he heard about this he probably would be.
So, there is another indicator. Question. Were my new hobbles made by RM
or did they come from somewhere else? Does anyone know who makes
greenhide?
Brumby boots next thread.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 06:36 pm
Allison,
Would you mind posting the URL to those stores. I want leather bell boots
that will actually protect my drunken breakers with their first set of
shoes on, I am sick of the wet suit material which belongs on divers to
keep them warm, no other use, and yet they use to make everything possible
for horses by way of leg protection. Ha. Ha. They got it right in one area
though, the "Neck Sweat" Perfect material the old wet suit. That
keeps the little suckers warm.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 07:09 pm
Yep,
got to agree with HP and Alison today.
Most saddleries stock c*** gear , and won't/can't get the quality stuff.
As for service, absolutely agree, Alison, I've been shopping mail order
for a few years, and by far prefer to driving 50 k's to find they don't
stock what I want, can't/won't get it in,and are quite often really
obnoxious to boot. Not as bad in Melb, but the local chain stores have
lost my clipper blades,oh, sorry that'll be $50 for a new set, seriously,
then they send me a catalogue, funny I've never been back in; my returned
boots that fell to bits in two days took 8 weeks to be replaced (they had
to kill the cow)sold me gear that falls to bits , and they seem to prefer
I shop elsewhere, so I'm happy to.
I'd like the URL's too please Alison, and anyone else if they've got any
good ones.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 07:34 pm
Horse
problems- this will please you. l often have stalls at flea markets/car
boot sales to help pay for all the passing horses that come here. There is
an older gentleman who has a stall at some of them, he makes all his own
whips, halters, hobbles, bridles, belts, wallets, you name it, if its in
leather he makes it. On talking to him and complamenting him on the
workmanship in the whips, he mentioned he didnt like the
belts/wallets/hatband type of stuff but thats what really sells. No one
wants bridles, hobbles, whips any more, they all want crap (he said it a
bit more colourful but l toned it down for here!).
Sounds like your type of hobble-maker. Trouble is, l'm in Victoria, and
the bottom end of it at that.
l also have leather bell boots, trouble is, none of them match. Lord knows
where they come from, when you mentioned it in your post, l figured if
they were still in the shed, you could have them. But they are all
different!!!!
The old harness makers are about, you've just got to suss them out.
For pony rugs (to the above poster) cant beat Skypark rugs in Nyora. The
factory is there, state your size and they will make it, with shoulder
gussets, tail flap, tent flap, what ever type of straps you prefer,etc.
And at a very reasonable price. From the smallest mini to the largest
draft (had one of each and got rugs for them too!)
Chris M - l had the same trouble with a roller for a pony. A chap in
Alberton makes leather stuff, made me one a few years back (around $116 l
think) and l'm more than happy with it. If you want me to hunt around and
see if he is still around and get you a rough price, l'll be glad to.
l cheat a bit with bridles, since l play with horses a lot in the salt
water, l use the baling twine bridles for play. A dear friend made them in
all different sizes, when the buckles give up the ghost, you kind of
jiggle them and they come out (well, more than a jiggle) then you replace
them.
l must be really honest and say l do have an indian saddle that l use on
any strange horses for the first time (wont cry if it breaks) and l also
have an indian headstall (elephant size) that was a birthday pressie back
in 1972!!!!! Its still going, not pretty, but still used.
Have been to a Horseland shop about ten times in my life, never been to
the other one you mentioned, live to far away to haunt them.
Have prattled enuff!
Cheers
Ambridge and her buckskins and a grey.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 08:16 pm
Thanks
for the offer Ambridge. Doesn't matter to me if they don't match. I,m not
going in any shows with my fulla's. What thickness is the leather? Do they
have a strap and buckle around the top of them.?
Anyhow, Post Office Box 89, Surry Downs, S.A. 5126.
Gainsborough Equestrian Centre.
Send them collect and with a bill and I'll pay you right back Ambridge.
Ta.
Now SkyPark Rugs. Fantastic. We have one of and are getting more this
winter. Well made, well designed, quality and last and last.
On the subject of "No one want's good stuff anymore"
I feel that the "No-one" is the new entries into the Industry
during the last 15 years and they have been brainwashed to think that all
there is out there is all there is out there. McDonalds, Horseland and
Saddleworld. They have trained the market beautifully.
I just feel sorry for the young kids, single parent families, low income,
hanging around stables to beg, borrow or lease a horse. They are getting
ripped off by having to scrimp and save and then having to repeat the
process all the time.
Whoever it was that spoke about those lunging rollers, aren't they little
beauties. If you put one around The Dipper and he took a deep breath, it
would bust in two. What an insult and rip off it is to even put them on
the wall of a shop.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 08:28 pm
Goodness
- is this a subject close to my heart!!! HP - you said it all. The
standard of gear for sale now is utter garbage, unless you want to pay a
lot. Well, I do pay a lot but at least I am assured that my bridles, etc
will last for years. I still have the first bridle I bought 20 odd years
ago and there is nothing wrong with it. By the way, I have it on good
authority that a few of the European saddlers (Kieffer for one) are having
their leather hides tanned in India in order to cut costs. Haven't seen a
Kieffer with a reduced price in the saddleries yet.......
As I show as well as compete in dressage, I am conscious of having
saddlery that fits well. I do tend to horrify my friends that I work my
boy in an Olympic bridle! But you know what? Because it is high quality,
you clean it and care for it and it is still good enough to show in.
As someone earlier said, we are in danger of becoming a bankrupt country
in relying purely on imports (not to mention culturally and skilfully
bankrupt which I fear is already here). I went into my local saddlery for
a particular item and when I said 'nothing Indian, etc.' they had nothing
to offer. How sad.
As a result, I am hanging on to the gear I have although I now have a
large pony that doesn't fit all the hack sized bridles, etc I have! In
spite of people saying I should sell it and buy new when I need it, I am
afraid I will not be able to get the quality I want in the future. I also
haunt car boot sales, etc. It is amazing what people get rid of! A good
clean and a minor repair or two - voila - gear at a bargain price that is
hard to replace!!
Regarding rugs, you cannot go past Skye Park. Top quality, tailor made
& reasonably priced (and made in Australia).
Sorry about the whinge - I really could go on and on. It seems that there
are more than a few of us who feel this way.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 08:46 pm
Seeing
as the major chains don't stock much stuff of any use to endurance riders
I have found a few terrific Australian manufacturers of all sorts of bits
and bobs. Saddles from Alan McKinder. Mine's a work of art and I think it
will last longer than me.
Lovely custom shaped sheepskin saddle blankets from D'Lua, Custom coloured
PVC bridles, breastplates etc, Rugs of all sorts from the lady down the
road, custom colour/designed ropewear for riding halters, headcollars and
leadropes etc from Wendy Landers, fab coloured float ties and lead ropes
from 5 Daughter's leads, canvas goods such as hay bags form various
locals, float boots from a local, hand made custom width stirrup irons
from a chap in the Yarra Ranges,custom made jods in about 25 colours from
Horseplay, the terrific Mirotec range of rugs and treatment products, lots
and lots of small independent firms are around begging for your Aussie
dollars. They can't afford to market themselves like the big guys but ask
around next time you want to buy something and chances are there is a
little Aussie firm that makes it at an affordable price. The best thing
about spending your bucks with these guys is that they really appreciate
your custom and bend over backwards to help you become an advocate of
their products.
HP, just as a matter of interest a friend has about 20 RM Williams
catalogues from the 50's and 60's. They are so interesting! You could
order anything from a stocksaddle to a shot gun mail order and they would
get it to you anywhere in the country!
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 09:07 pm
Went to
a local saddler to have a saddle made to fit my horse thinking I would get
quality, but not the case. Maybe I should have bought one off the
production line at least I would have known what I was getting.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 09:15 pm
I"m
exciiiiiiiiiiiited
You oten hear the comment, "You get what you pay for." Big Sars
Go into Saddleworld and have a look at the pair of black like alike man
made hide bellboots with the foam interior. $50. Sorry, that is not
getting what you pay for. Those bell boots would cost $2 to make in India
or China. When I was in kindy, we used to have product the same to make
things out of, ROFLMTO
Oh, I forgot the all purpose leather everything that won't accept oil. Do
you think that's a design error. Too bloody right.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 09:18 pm
www.clotheshorse.co.nz
They often have lovely stuff on sale. I've brought lovely Harry Hall
pleated front jods and Waistcoats from them for about 80.00 per pair (on
sale)and lovely English Leather bridles which are great quality and not
expensive at about 120.00.
Often they just have run of the mill stuff but seem to get overruns of
English stuff from time to time which they sell off cheaply.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 09:38 pm
Just a
thought, HP.
Do or would Mattens make real leather products ?
Mainly thinking of your bell boots.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 09:56 pm
Probably
Farrago. Other side of town and often forget Les. Is he still going OK?
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 10:00 pm
Forgot,
late, I sent a client there this week, the girl with the kindy boots from
Horseland. I will find out soon. I am breaking in a big young one from
Canberra for her and he hit's his hooves together, his legs. Just a big
young gangly guy with big movement. I often wonder how much damage is done
to youngsters due to a lack of proper protection. I have always managed to
scrape up my own gear but sick of it being destroyed all the time.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 10:05 pm
I had
my saddle widened a while back and his son (cant remember name) came out
to where my horse was. So haven't actually been to the shop for some time.
I believe they still make quality gear, but you'd probably have to pay a
fair amount. I'm sure it would be worth a phone call though.
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 10:23 pm
Horseproblems
- l just sprinted up the shed, two odd leather ones; one pair leather ones
with felt inside, buckles up top, rather thick leather; another pair of
something, looks like a bell boot with a tendon boot joined onto it. They
are old, well made but some of the felt is eaten away.
l'll send the lot up to you, keep what you want, turf the rest out or sit
them in your shed. l dont want anything for them. Better they get some use
with you rather than rot in my shed.
(Found a Wayne Walker saddle up there too, now there's a good brand for
you.)
Cheers
Ambridge and her buckskins
Thursday,
March 21, 2002 - 10:43 pm
I love
all the crappy rugs and leather gear because I have a rug and saddlery
repair business. When it falls to bits or rips I get it to fix. Must say
though some people just go and buy more crappy stuff. I have some rugs
that get used every winter and they must be fifteen years old. I would
love to see one of these new nylon rugs in fifteen years. I guess its just
a throw away world now. Just a warning too, watch the buckles on the cheap
girths, some the tongue is too short and slips through and they come
undone.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 07:54 am
For
those who wanted the details of the overseas websites for product and
customer service experience:
www.rideaway.co.uk
www.camequestrian.com
Both of the above I would call and ask for a catalogue. It is far easier
to phone through an order than use their website. They both do custom
product as well that is not listed in their catalogues. The call centre
staff are fantastic and very efficient so even if you have a mountain of
questions your call costs (IDD) are very small. Mine on average are .80c -
$2 per call.
Recently, CAM sent me an incorrectly sized helmet in error. When I phoned
to work out how I get it back to them and get the correct one I was
stunned at their customer service. They were SO apologetic and insisted I
keep the incorrect one (free of charge) whilst they couriered the
correctly sized one to me urgently. It arrived from the UK 2 days later.
They also sent me a discount voucher of GBP10 off my next order for any
inconvenience suffered on my part.
As the incorrect one fitted my husband it was a fantastic result as we
both had two new Charles Owen SJ helmets for AUS$120!
The Clothes Horse in NZ I notice Ciao Baby has already posted. Highly
recommend their service.
md - one final comment. No, I've never owned a saddlery, however I am a
Sales Manager for an organisation where our products are by far the most
expensive in the market. We spend a lot of time and money selecting and
training our sales people to position product correctly in order to be
successful. A salesperson who can qualify a purchaser who is quality
focussed is worth 10 salespeople who can simply push product. I'm not
convinced the retail horse market in Australia understands this.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 08:03 am
Am
trying v hard to buy Australian - its a challenge but can be done. So far
have managed a Peter Horobin (Mornington, Victoria) saddle (V happy,
treasured possession and cheaper than many of the chain store varieties
made to measure and fitted with air panels - phew !!!) and am shortly to
get a Peter O'Brien (Greensborough, Victoria)bridle (lovely man, comes out
and measures up, v competitive prices, think he also makes all kinds of
other leather stuff - I will inquire about bell boots). My major sticking
point right now is rugs - I love my Rambo rugs and would have to be
heavily convinced before buying something else but have been looking at
the Skye Park alternatives - can anyone recommend or compare ?
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 08:17 am
One of
the things that disappointed me about Equitana was the lack of small
manufacturers & craftsmen. It was too expensive for them to have a
stand. I'll put in a plug for Glamourous Gear For Horses - great polar
fleece rugs & lovely show rugs. And Alhambri for great cotton paddock
rugs. B&B Saddlery (Yarra Junction) can get most stuff made and stock
your basic saddlery stuff. They made a nice show halter for me.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 08:17 am
Alison
,as a sales rep myself as is my partner I understand where your coming
from. And I agree with what most people are saying on the forum, the good
old days of quality gear for a reasonable price seems to be gone.
I remember a NZ rug i purchased second hand that was already 15years old
at the time, I still have it 10years later, a little worse for wear and
missing its lining, but is a fantastic unlined.
But as you can imagine, putting the blame on the saddlerys and the
constant bagging of them above, to one that has owned one and did their
damdest to sell good qualtiy gear only to be told time and time again that
they didn't want to spend that much, is a little hurtfull.
Quite often I convinced buyers to forgo the indian saddle, and buy a
wintec or bates, as for the comfort of the horse and rider alone, plus the
lasting power etc.....
Keep in mind that these stores are either franchised or owned by
individuals using the name of the group. The wholesalers import and then
sell to the saddlerys, and believe me by the time the stock gets to the
retail shop the profit they make is not huge, the profit is made at the
wholesale stage.
HP you seem to be forgetthing that these are business's trying to make
some money, with the cost of rent, staff, phone and power, insurance, just
setting up a shop costs around the 80000.00 mark and that is being
conservative, and that does not include stock, that is only talking about,
fittings and fixtures, we carried around one hundred thousand dollars
worth of stock on our shelves, and you just cannot please everyone, if you
don't stock enough people complain due to lack of choice, if you go with
stocking heaps you run a huge risk of not getting your money back for a
long long time, also most of these stores do not get a choice of what they
purchase due to group buying, and by bringing in another outside supplier
who you don't get as good a deal from you run the risk of either out
pricing yourself on that product or having to sell it with very little
profit. There is alot more to this story than what buyers on the outside
see. Yes we continually complained to our supplier re the quality or there
lack of on some products, but quite often your hands are tied. Cheers
PS someone mentioned the profit made on overseas saddles, seeing as you
can invest as much as 2500.00 on one of these saddles to sell it for
3200.00 the profit and the risk of having it sit on your shelf for months
on end, really negates the profit after all.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 08:46 am
HP,
Yes we break in here in Central Vic. We are lucky to have a good saddler
who does most of our gear. The only problem we have is with crappy bits
that go nowhere near the shape of a real horse's mouth.
Anyway, other month we had a Beautiful Irish Draught that had mega
problems (for re education). 17 hh plus, big and strong. Previous owners
used to give it "Tune ups" from the ground as they were too
gutless to ride it and think it through. Would suck back as soon as you
tried to get foot near it or the stirrup.
The only bridle we had to fit this monster was a bridle I bought in
England many years ago. The reins are on the missing list, so grabbed a
pair off a new bridle we had bought from a chain store.
Went to step on, horse sucked back- reins snapped in two. Thank god he had
not swung on at that stage as the boy could do a little bit!!!
Problem was, horse had confirmed in his mind that a suck back would get
him out of work, as we had to stuff around looking for more reins#$#%%#
Hubby went back to saddlery. His real concern being
1 What if he had made it to saddle and reins had done the same?
2 What if some PC kid had the same thing happen in open paddock etc.
He recommended they take these bridles off their stands. The saddlery
owner OOhhhed and Ahhed.
Next time we went in there guess what?
Oh well. At least we tried to let them know.
Have our rollers hand made, but got a mini the other day. Bought a roller
from another shop. Yup, D's gone already.
Frustrating. Even if it is crappy looking, for the price, I would like it
to be at least safe!
Vanny
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 09:04 am
Timing,
I too love my Rambo's and loved the old Mulder's rugs.The thing for me
is,if I buy a Rambo and the horse breaks a strap off, for instance,1) the
material doesn't tear,no matter what the horse does 2) the strap can be
sewn back on by me, without having to fork out for the rug repairer, or
drive into town
The against is the synthetic materials would melt onto the horse and cause
worse burns to the horse in the event of a fire (God forbid that ever
happening), they're not Australian made, we are yet to see how long the
fabrics will hold up long term.
MD , I am sure you would've tried much harder than our local chainstore
operators, but I reckon there is alot of skill to selling the good
products. Firstly, I'd like to say blaming the customers for their poor
taste is not the answer; explaining to them the effect of quality on years
of use, the benefits to horse and rider in terms of safety etc etc. Sure
there are those who still like MacDonald's style goods, but there are many
who can see the economy. I'm sure if the little saddleries were able to
offer the pay-as-you-ride type of payments that would help too. Don't know
how feasible that is, but one of the things I love about my local
grainstore is they are great with letting me pay things off, not that I do
all the time, in fact, they are such generous people I hate owing them
even $20. But service in the chainstores is sometimes a bit like K-Mart,
where the sales assistants are often obviously hating their jobs, and
wishing the bloody customers will F- off.
It does make a difference.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 09:41 am
So, md
- why wouldn't you and I get together and set up a business selling
products and services to those who value quality over price?
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 09:49 am
OH fbtt,
you are so tight, fix your own rugs??? and the poor rug repairer is trying
to make a living
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 11:26 am
absolutely,
tight as!! How else do you save up for the good equipment?
I'm sure the rest of the world won't do as I do Reata, so no need to
stress about your business!! It's the travelling into town and back, to
drop off and pick up that kills it for me, min 20k's each way times 2 for
drop off and then pick up, 80k's for one rug repair, plus time & of
course, rug repairers fee (fair enough). I still can only do leather &
canvas repairs by hand, so they get my business for that often anyway!!
(at least i'm not trying to sell crappy rugs to the poor broke horsepeople
just so I can get the repairing them job , like I believe some do!!!
)
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 01:58 pm
Somebody
requested a comparison rug maker to Skye Park - can I recommend Heather
Robinson's rugs - business is called Double J Ranch I think. Great
quality, built to last and she will come and measure up / make to measure.
They are based out past Warragul in Gippsland.
HP - if you still need bell boots, suggest you talk to Bruce Smith
Saddlery (Vic) he makes all his own stuff and would make up bell boots for
you.
Cheers
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 02:25 pm
Thanks
for the reply, ftbb. Your point about the synthetic nature of the Rambo's
is not lost on me - although being a Brit I tend not to rug in the summer
(I find neck-rugging an alien concept even now) except maybe at night if
its cold and really not ever on fire ban days. I guess I'd like to buy
Aussie if I can - the thing is the Rambo's don't slip, are actually
waterproof and don't rub the horse at all - how do the new synthetic Skye
Park's stack up ?
On a more general not - have to say the Australian made stuff is generally
pretty good quality - and generally the service from small independent
saddlers is streets ahead of the main chain stores. Compare one stores'
approach of 'if the saddle doesn't fit, we can sell you a pad' to the
Peter Horobin/Peter O'Brien measure-fit-adjust-fit approach where the
horses comfort comes first.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 02:31 pm
Love to
Alison, but unfortunately lost too much blooooooody money in the saddlery.
Still something to think about eh!!!!!Cheers
Ps to the person that said that like K Mart most of the employee's hate
their jobs, we must have been lucky had the same staff from start to
finish, they were all good at their jobs, obviously some better than
others, I can agree that in some of the busier stores with more staff, it
can get a bit like that.
Like at my recent store (won't name it) I had just purchased a brand new
dressage saddle from them that I hated after a couple of weeks, went back
to speak to them, the owners were not there so some young girl served me,
she was so rude and uninterested, as you can imagine I was a little
emotional as I had just spent $3000.00 odd on something that was not
living up to my expetations, I actually said to her, just get such and
such to ring me as you are obviously not interested, sorry to take up some
of your precious time (I am a stickler for good customer service), well
didn't she go into a blind panic, the shop had already called me before I
made it home. (apparently she was having a bad day, call life line I said
they care).
Anyway like all stores you get good and bad sales people in all walks of
life and getting good staff is really hard.
Cheers
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 03:09 pm
I just
wish the horse world would become un-educated and take crap or faulty
product back and take up their consumer rights which are there to protect.
Imagine how many of those rollers are lying in sheds all over Australia.
The importer probably drives a Jag. Just give them a tune up and
re-educate the chain stores. If everyone just did the simple thing of
taking it back, they wil,l get the message.
As I said earlier, there was the elastic sides pony clubber boot that the
heels fell off inside 14 days. I took one back, then the econd pair, my
independant saddler complained and sent 40 pairs back, next thing there
was a product recall to put 6 lousy brass nails in them which is all it
took to fix them. The original nails only entered the heel by half a
millimetre. That gave the manufacturer the message and struck a blow for
fairness.
Anyhow, last year I posted at another place regarding the far superior
quality of the Brumby (Australian Made) sports medicine boots and the
weatherbeater. My wife has two of each. Well I recommended them to a
client a few weeks ago and she went and purchased a set. When I took them
you of the package, I immediately compared them to my wifes set. Inferior
quality showed, both in thickness of material, type of stitching and
thickness of thread. Then I noticed that there was no Brumby tag stitched
into them like my wifes ones. I told her to take them back and request
ones with the Brunmby tag. That was six weeks ago. Haven't shown up yet.
So, why would anyone take their advertising tag out of their good boots?
Why have they dropped in quality, why are none in stock in Adelaide
Saddleworld and why 6 weeks no show? Sus I reckon.
Why also would an ozzie company, with a better product than weatherbeater,
suddENly downgraDE?
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 03:57 pm
Timing,
when I mentioned fire it wasn't just bushfire I was thinking of. Gail
Powell (can't think of her married name) had a truck fire a few years ago,
and some of the horses sustained terrible burns because of synthetic rugs
they were wearing melted onto them and kept burning. The report on it
stays with me a little, and I travel them in cotton or wool mainly.
Hopefully I'll never find out what a stable fire is like, but nobody is
ever expecting one. I always go out there at night when the horses are in.
Paranoid ? yes, but can't sleep until I've checked.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 04:00 pm
This is
a thoroughly worthwhile thread folks and no objections to anyone naming
brands they've found satisfactory. ALSO no problem with horseproblems'
last question...it's a significant issue.
But could you back-pedal a bit on naming stores where you've had crap
service or publishing the brand-names of s*it merchandise? Maybe post
details of the deal and invite e-mail if anyone is interested in more.
Two reasons...people these days will sue if the wind blows the wrong way
and the line between defamation and telling-it-as-it-is is fuzzier than
you would think. The other is that it lets in 'spite posters'
Continue my children......
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 04:13 pm
Is
there anything stopping anyone walking into the major saddlery chains and
asking them to get in XYZ product, if this is the quality product you
want?
Maybe if more people made known to the major chains what it is they want
to buy, then perhaps they'd stock it. If it is as md describes, these
major chains only see crap products walking off their shelves so they
re-stock accordingly.
Just my perspective...
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 04:55 pm
agree
with Lin if enough people ask and buy the stores will change their way of
thinking, I come from the old school of Harry Downs gear, does anyone else
remeber this dear old gentleman [well he was gruff at times but] walking
into his work shop come store was like heaven, the smell of pure quality
leather and I have still got bridles, saddles that Ive had for near 30
years still going strong.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 05:15 pm
We used
to get asked constantly to get products in and we did if we were able, you
would find that most of the saddlery chains keep a log of what is asked
for and how often as we did, if enough people asked then they would
consider stocking that product.
For those of you that don't know putting a whole new line of stock in just
to satisfy one or two customers is simply bad business.
Normally on the purchase of 1 item it is expensive, when you take freight,
no discount due to lack of product amount into consideration. Even trying
to stock a good selection of jods was difficult, and don't even talk to me
about rugs. Saddles were a nightmare as every saddle you put on display
ended up being the wrong colour or the wrong size etc.... and keeping
every size in every colour just wasn't pratical, too much money tied up in
stock.
I am just trying to show another perspective here without destroying the
great thread hope no body minds, but until I actually owned a saddlery I
too used to think like most of you, then the reality set in as did the
logistics and cost effectiveness. cheers
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 05:43 pm
M4
please delete store names I mentioned, sorry, I should've left them
out.Don't want to cause any trouble for you.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 07:20 pm
NAH....you're
OK there fttb. It's on the 'right' side of allowable. Otherwise, I expect
you to visit me in jail!
PS...have excellent recipe for cake with file baked inside....will
forward.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 07:32 pm
Thanks,
I like cake , what flavour is it ?
Hey, also, has anyone else found that solid brass clips aren't solid brass
clips anymore??
I find it's really annoying, I want to buy brass clips because I don't
want clips that break- gee I hate it when they try to sell me brass
painted alloy ones, I wonder how safe the alloy ones are if they're the
link between say a stallion and the lead at an outing. Would the store
that sold them then assume responsibility for the horse if it snapped one
and went off to play?
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 07:41 pm
Good
point ftbb, while I know at the moment the insurance business is ..well
you know, the point you raise is spot on, if the store owner could be held
responsible for the clip or even the quality of leather, etc, maybe they
may think twice of selling goods that may look good but are crap?
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 08:39 pm
You go
for it MD. We're only having a discussion. Bye the way, was your shop
stocked along the horseland lines with todays product, the flash gear or
what. A lot of what you say would be effected by that perhaps. Can I also
ask you this? as this is a concern I have as well. Did you sell twisted
wire bits like a lot do, just because they are in a product range or did
you tell them to get stuffed? I had a big chain store come up to me at
Equitana, proudly showing me a new type of Gag. His eyes were excited at
yet another new product. I sort of walked away and left my wife with him
as I couldn't have helped myself. What about the you beaut shepherds crook
to hold the horses back leg up. I noticed Monty had one. Made of metal
with rubber handle. Now there's an Insurance case. Handler hooks back leg
of suspect horse, horse kicks metal crook travelling at 25k an hour over
fence and hit's rich lady/man in the scon. wow.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 09:17 pm
..my
boomerang won't come back!
sorry, you are a crack up Horseproblems, but the worst bit is that this is
a very real scenario!
If only I could stop laughing at the imagery!!
Crikey, you'd have to try to have the video camera close by and on
stand-by eh? do they throw one in with the purchase of the said hook?
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 10:53 pm
The
mind boggles fttb. I'm not joshin. The thing is about a metre long and
weighs about 3kg. A real weapon. Invented in Vic I think. Probably to give
to the anti Port Power supporters
They'll
need em.
Friday,
March 22, 2002 - 11:21 pm
My
first boss used one of those hooks 25 years ago. No rubber handle though.
God those TB colts could really rip it out of your hand. Never did hit any
of the rich owners. I think it was a SA invention, a lot of old cowboys
use them as walking sticks....
Saturday,
March 23, 2002 - 12:48 am
HP was
going to say 'your joking?' but thought better
Metal
rod, hook, bloody hell
Just
on metal thingies, had a farrier come here and pull out one of those hoof
stands, now dont know whether Im just a panic twit but told him where he
could put the thing, Oh could just imagine an accident waiting to happen
with those and didnt wont one of mine skinning the tendons if the hoof
slipped off it.
I think Reata's suggestion a walking stick suits it!
Saturday,
March 23, 2002 - 08:09 am
Ftbb,
my god you've really got me thinking about fire now...aaaah ! something
else I'll worry about ! By the way, I don't think you're paranoid - I
always do a late night stables last thing if they are in - after a bout of
colic a couple of months ago, I now sometimes do a late night paddock
visit - now maybe that's paranoid !
Saturday,
March 23, 2002 - 01:12 pm
Hmmm,
very interesting thread . . . my 2c worth:
Yes, the large chain saddleries do stock a fair share of base-rate gear
and it has gradually gotten worse year-by-year. However, there does appear
to be a market for it . . . because if it didn't sell, nobody would
restock the stuff. And, as we all know, the chain groups target the masses
where the independent/specialist suppliers target a particular, often
higher-end market.
I do recall Castle Hill Saddlery (which closed down last year) --- when
I'd visit to pick up various bits'n'pieces I always have a quick chat to
Dave or one of the assistants (very helpful on every occasion!) ---
however, the quality of gear was certainly not what it was 10 years ago. I
did mention it (never being one for being backward) and Dave explained
that if I wanted anything specific he would order it in (which he did on a
number of occasions), however, the bulk of the gear readily available in
the store (though deemed not worthy for me or my horse), sold really well
and most people were very happy with it. The other factor (which is often
the make-or-break factor) is money. Yes, I'll go and spend ~$250 on a set
of front & back Veredus boots for my horse to trail ride in but (as
Dave explained) the average person who frequents his saddlery wouldn't.
All my bridles are custom made (even my work bridle) --- Dave from Castle
Hill made the work bridle (which STILL, after 11 years, fits my horse
beautifully and is good enough to show in); Brett/Cliff Watson from Front
Row made all the show bridles, dressage whips, hack canes and had a
jeweller custom make gold and silver pieces for the browbands (jeweller is
now deceased).
Dave also put me in contact with a leather specialist when I was looking
to do a bit of mini-eventing. Les Benson --- who custom-made my horse's
eventing boots --- again, cost a bit but worth every cent (problem was
horse went lame before ever using them so they've been in the cupboard for
7 years! :o)
Rugs: Generally, I haven't had much success at all with saddlery rugs
fitting my horse, so again, I source independent makers who offer a more
specialised service to a B.I.B. horse. I use 'Sue's Rugs' for
cotton/moleskin/light wool/heavy wool combos; Bushmaster in QLD for canvas
(I'm based in Sydney) --- they have a beautiful higher neck line with a
flare-lined shoulder area for the solid horse. And for synthetic I have
used Weatherbeeta, Picador and Rambo. The Weatherbeeta needed to be
customised for my horse, the Picador (old) was perfect, and the Rambo fit
was perfect too (and doesn't budge!), however my horse did break the tail
rope clip in early days and also did tear the fabric on the tail flap
***From what I hear and read, I think this might be a world's first!
:-)***
So, yes, if you really want specialist equipment/gear, you can source
suppliers that will help you, as there are many of them out there who
would just love to offer you that special service! --- you should also
allow a more generous budget in most cases. However, you can be surprised
from time to time, as with 'Sue's Rugs' who can actually beat the saddlery
prices, but still offers a 'made-to-measure' service. Sue, like one of the
other posters, is also baffled as to why so many people buy base-rate gear
that doesn't fit and last . . . she knows 'cause she does all the
repairs/tailoring on them.
I think this thread has been very helpful, because it has also offered a
number of alternatives for those who have needs not met by the chain
saddleries. I know that I'm going to keep a little list of some of the
independent suppliers mentioned.
This is all very interesting, and I have always gone for quality over
quantity (and always will), however, my circumstances as a single
professional allow me to do so. Though, I do believe if you buy faulty
gear you should definitely take it back as the saddleries should know
about this and acknowledge the problem. If enough people did this then
some of the continually offending products may be removed from the
catologue. If you do not like their product, do not support them by buying
it . . . go to the independent/specialist supplier.
Cheers, and sorry for the waffle . . . haven't posted or a little while.
Saturday,
March 23, 2002 - 01:44 pm
HP
there is a really funny story about a twisted wire bit in my store, if you
can see the funny side for a moment please. Most of our stock when we
opened was ordered for us by our Franchisor, so alot of the little stuff
like bits we did not have much say in. As we were unpacking and labelling,
a huge task as you can imagine, I came across a twisted wire bit, I
immediately said, oh yuk I would never buy one of those, someone helping
me looked over and said ' you just did!!!!!!
HP we did stock alot of the ••••, as being in a group sometimes
there wasn't alot of choice and when trying to make a profit, buying
within a group is cost effective, we tried especially hard in our store to
stock for all levels of the purse, and with the small stuff, is really
isn't worth stocking quality stuff as people just are not interested. We
had qualtiy bridles, saddles, jods, helmets,rugs etc...But sadly most of
it we took home, were probably buying for our own tastes anyway.
With sale items you really had to stock what was in the sale catalogue for
obvious reasons.
It was a huge learning curve, we were a country store which has a hugely
different clientele to the city stores.
If I can just go back to bits for a sec, it always used to amaze me the
amount of wierd and wonderful bits that the western and trail fraternity
would request, the double twists, ones with humungus ports and huge
shanks, I remember a breaker once picking up our twisted wire and saying
what a lovely bit it would be for a youngster??? We also had to be careful
not to have an opinion, not on gear or horses as you can imagine, even the
most beginner rider is a know it all, and don't mention the pony club
parents they were the worst.
The natural people were also awful (sorry to all those nice knowleagble
naturals out there), the ones that had just discovered it, we had one guy
come in and ask for the thinest wire bit you could get, when I asked why
he needed such a thin bit, he informed me he was natural and needed a bit
for the horse that was so thin, the horse would not even no it was in his
mouth, (I shudder to think what that poor horse had to go through when
this bloke was not under supervision).
Any other questions re our saddlery I would be happy to answer. Cheers
Saturday,
March 23, 2002 - 07:14 pm
Why
didn't you send him down to the piano shop MD. They could have given him a
real thin one. lol. Yea, funny but sad. I know I spend too much time in
the round yard and have an imagination that is too fertile (better than I)
but I just know it gets back to Education. If I could get hold of that EFA
for one day!!! Couldn't you make some fantastic changes to this Industry
for the good of the horse.
Anyhow, how's that neddy going? You were sending it to a breaker. Now come
on. No secrets here
Ya can't dump the subject now. You're in too deep girl.
Rusty-- One of my standardbred breakers (with blindfold) won it's first
one day event last weekend. Led after dressage. Ha. Ha.
I also had a good day today. A riding pony breaker went Champion at
Strathalbyn in the led and another one went champion newcommer in the
ridden. Little darlings. They are both agisted here and I'll give em a
kiss in the morning. The horses that is
Saturday,
March 23, 2002 - 10:12 pm
Excellent
news Horseproblems . . . well done to you and your standardbred (and
ponies!). Hey, if you ever need the use of any show gear, you just give me
a hoy! --- NOTE: Not purchased at chain saddlieries ---(though I suspect
you have more than enough of your own) . . . I have some stunning pieces
that haven't been touched in 7 years.
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 07:58 am
To MD
to one of your posts.
You mentioned that the risk of having a saddle sit on the shelf etc etc
outways the profits, well answer me this question!
One KN supplier is selling the KN for $3,395.00 and another is selling
them for $2,895.00 and they are both in Victoria. That's $500.00
difference.
If you look on the American websites, what the shops sell them for is
equivelent to around $2,400.00 dollars Australian.
I would gladly buy a KN here but look at what is happening. At $2,895.00
they still must be making a worth while margin.
You can't tell me there some stooge pricing going on.
I would rather buy here and support local business but if they can't
support their own customers aswell then why be loyal to them.
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 08:44 am
Okay I
have been reading this thread and trying to stop putting my two bobs worth
in..
The Dublin boots that HP mentioned, yep my daughter had a pair of them,
still has minus the heels!!!! She is still using them, but when she is
doing her schooling she does not use stirrups so the safety problem is not
an issue. Otherwise she has two pairs of Baxter boots. She usually
outgrows them, the quality is top and they last!!!!
Saddles, well we had a super Harry Downs that was about, yep out of the
ark until a horse flipped on daughter and she ended up in hospital with
comparatively minor injuries, horse okay, but, sniff, saddle dead!!!!!!
Was the most beautiful little saddle, great quality, great fit.
Bridles, hmmmm, well the work one for the OTTB is actually a good one,
good $$ but like someone else said it is cleaned and oiled and shown in
wins turnouts and goes the round of the paddocks also. Yep it is an aussie
made, by the Smith family of Cranbourne. The best bridle, the top one for
the OTTB is a Hubertus which has a grain that is sooooooo fine it is
beautiful.
The saddles we have at present are all Aussie made, Syd Hill, Bates, Harry
Downs and of course the Smith bunch.
Bell boots, HP, they are the bain of my life coz our little bloke
overreaches and those rubber ones I cannot get on, and the velcro closure
ones fall apart. I have actually made a pair from very heavy duty canvas,
they are not too glamorous but they do the job of stopping injury, so I
also need a good heavy leather pair. This pony has excessive stride, FEI
judge/rider, daughters' instructor said she wishes he was about three
hands taller coz he can move it!!!!!!!
Rugs......gggrrrrrrrrrr......I am saving my cookies and going back to skye
park, they are just down the road........40kms.........and great. BUT,
this year I think I shall be getting a member of our PC who is a brilliant
rug maker to do custom fits for our boy and girl. The feral doesn't need
rugging....
Okay I shall away off my soapbox for now ....... well not quite.
JODPHURS!!!!! Kids jods are disgraceful the range available. I was talking
to Cheryl Smith the other day and she was telling me about some that they
get from a family company in QLD so I shall be going down with daughter
for a fitting......at she quoted about the $90 mark I am all for them and
they are a sticky bum....
I did buy a pair of Peter Williams Jods some four years ago at about $80
for kid and they are only now past being show standard.......shows how
little she has grown.......hehehe
Must away now off my soapbox and onto my broom to take kid to work then
work the neddys.
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 10:55 am
To all
Posters on this subject, I think it is necessary to be aware of your
rights as a consumer.
The only thing that you have to remember is this:-
" ALL PRODUCTS MUST BE FIT FOR THE USE, FOR WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN
SOLD"! "This is regardless of Price"!
Do not be "fobbed off" by being told that the product you
purchased was cheap and therefore could not be expected to perform well!
In the event the products are faulty, or do not perform to an acceptable
level for the purpose for which they have been sold, and you cannot get
any satisfaction from the retailer or manufacturer, then I suggest you
avail yourself of the services of the Small Claims Tribunal or Consumer
Protection Authority or equivalent in each State.
Then, and only then, will this less than acceptable quality be removed
from the shelves.
If we all availed ourselves of these rights, it would not be in the
interests of retailers to continue to stock the "rubbish" you
are all referring to in this thread.
Try it "guys". You will be surprised how well it works.
Regards
Gary.
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 11:45 am
Sound
advice Gary!
I reckon though that the problems with poor quality saddlery relfect a
general trend. Everyone wants to get as much out ouf you as possible and
that seems their ONLY agenda. Witness the justified outrage about Equitana
bleed-em-dry philosophy.
Recent personal sufferings...theatre tickets at $60 for seats (in one
case, overcrowded BENCH seating!) a million miles from the stage. As for
'spectaculars' at big venues like the MCG and tennis centre (Michael
Jackson et al), they slug you $100 for a seat from which the "Star'
is little but a microscopic dot in the distance.
And the $5 'cakes' that LOOK gorgeous but turn out to be made of plaster
of paris and have 'cream' that has never been within coo-eee of a cow.
But I'm an optimist, and I reckon that this trend will be self-limiting.
THE PEOPLE WILL REVOLT! and ultimately traders who go back to offering
value for money will be killed in the rush and the shonks and their
overpriced services/gear/merchandise and broken promises will be left
lamenting.
Roll on the day!
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 12:47 pm
I
bought a $30.00 hoof rasp from H#@%*** and returned it as it was so blunt
that it was useless. They weren't thrilled because I had painted the
handle end yellow before it was used.
I did get my money back,after suggesting politely that they take the
matter up with their supplier since the product could not perform the task
for which it was made.
They were fine about it, but what got me was their concern about the
yellow paint as it meant they couldn't resell it.Why would you want to
resell a faulty product???
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 04:53 pm
Bought
a new bridle for the kid's pony yesterday. Went through every bridle on
the rack 3 times, in all sizes, and finally, at the very back of the
highest rack, in the wrong size section found a beautiful English one. It
had been there for so long that the red ribbon on it was bleached to
yellow (and not from sun!)Up til finding that bridle, I only found those
ones where the buckle holes are nearly the width of the strap (??why do
they do that?).I was so pleased to find such a lovely bridle, and told
them that was exactly what I was looking for (why I'd taken every bridle
off every hook).
Sadly , they only get things like that in now when people order them
specially , but at $60 ($59.99) for the Indian ones that are so horrible,
$100 is still ok. It'll still be worth that in 10 years time. They said
those ones stopped being made a couple of years ago, the same company now
has them made in guess where?
What a shame.The PVC ones now look better than the leather ones!!
. Glad
I found this one tho, feel pleased every time I look at it!
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 08:18 pm
talking
about quality or rather the lack it seems, can anyone suggest good lead
ropes! I have brought what I class as expensive only to find they un-wind
themselves, fray.... just as good as the cheap ones
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 08:48 pm
I
bought a Hubertus bridle, which comes bare, no reins, nothing. The leather
is lovely, but the keepers are too big and keep sliding down all the time.
I even resorted to wrapping black elastic bands around them.
Why didn't I send the bridle back ? Cos I'm stupid ! The effort and hastle,
living so far away from where I purchased it, made me put it in the too
hard basket. Bet i'm not the only one thats done that.
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 08:58 pm
Deb,
cannot really answer that one, what I can tell you is, that yes our
biggest profit was made on the sale of of a saddle, than compared to say a
body brush, but the amount of investment, was also decidedly huge.
To give you a gage re the profits on some saddles, ie a County probably at
that time cost us around the 2300.00 mark and was selling for 2990.00, as
you can see although the profit seems a large one, the cost of having
2300.00 sitting on your shelf indefinetly was a huge investment for us.
In regards to the KN, perhaps the cheaper one has been sitting around for
a long time and the sellers have decided to free up some money to put
stock in that sells more readily? who knows, it definetly wasn't in our
best interest to sell things at cost or at a low profit margine as the
cost of opening the store every day was at a much larger amount than most
people would ever imagine.
Recently I purchased a saddle at a reasonable price due to the fact that
the new models have just appeared on the shelf at nearly 800.00 more
because of the foot and mouth disease in the UK.
Or if you look back at the County debarcle a few years ago where a major
competitor decided to bastardise the product by selling it at cost price,
good for consumers, suicide for the sellers.
Please keep in mind that these saddlery stores are trying to run a
profitable business, no one is out to rip anyone off and as many of you
may know trying to make money in the horse industry in any shape or form
is difficult. HP I am sure you can relate to this.
I would love to see better quality products available a local saddlery
stores, at a fair price, ask any Australian too make you a bridle or a
saddle, the prices normally don't come close to what you can buy off the
shelf, yes the quality it heaps better, uncomparable, most people will not
pay....
HP that young girl of mine has been going okay, I am lunging her again
without the stress, I have ridden her a couple of days in a row now just
at the walk, so far so good.
Would still love to send her to the breaker but finances are proving
difficult at the moment.
I have been riding my old medium horse which I kindly gave to my partner I
have stolen him back to get some riding fitness and confidence back. Wish
us luck I am determined this time things will be fine, just not going to
let any •••••••• stuff her up. I'll keep you posted.
Cheers
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 09:17 pm
This
thread is very interesting...I actually bought a lead rope about two weeks
ago, a big strudy thing that cost me about$35, well I tied my weanling
gelding to baling twine, he pulled back and guess what broke??? Not the
baling twine!! The damned $35 lead rope!!!
I've been sitting here reading this thread and thinking I should take the
damned thing back and ask for a refund, a lead rope should be a hell of a
lot sturdier than that.
Either that or I should make my own out of baling twine..
I remember Harry Downes from when I was living in Vic in the 80's, I loved
going in there with a school mate but Harry could be a bit scary...
Christine
Sunday,
March 24, 2002 - 10:30 pm
Sandy,
there are leads made of sort of flat stuff plaited together (usually 2
colours),last really well. They come with a big brass clip, and when the
swivel bit on the clip wears out, you can easily put new clip on- just
threads through.Haven't had a lead that good for a while- and they don't
seem to rot either, which is handy if you use the thing while you're
washing the horse off, which I do.And they're a handy sort of length too.
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 07:11 am
Have to
agree - these lead ropes are fantastic - haven't bought a new one in ages.
Also one of my horses loves to chew his lead ropes, undo knots etc and
they stand up to that, no problems.
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 07:24 am
Swear
by the above lead ropes. If the catch wears out you simply replace it. I
have one that I had used three years ago on a foal for him to drag around
to get used to and after living in dirt, mud whatever, it washes up and is
still in use and must be somewhere around 5yrs old now. When new they are
not too bendy but soon soften up a bit and last!!!!!!
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 08:56 am
I
forgot to mention last night that Gary Hartigan is absolutely right, if
the product does not does what it was sold to do, you are quite within
your rights ot take it back.
We had a situation in our shop where we had ordered in a pair of breeding
hobbles out of a catalogue for a customer, after one use the hobbles
literally fell apart, the customer quite rightly didn't want to try
another pair and wanted a refund, which we gave him, on returning the
originals to the wholesaler, guess what we did not get a refund,
apparently they decided he had used them inappropriately ehhhh? unless he
used them on the stallion instead of the mare, (I highly doubt that) how
could this happen.
Had a thought in the middle of the night (do I need to get a life or
what), the question that somebodya asked above about the two different
prices for the same product, in our shop and the rest of our group we
always went by the RRP that was given to us by the wholesaler. Now
occasionally a competitor would undercut us to get business, that all fair
in business, but it got me thinking, consumers always want the best price,
the cheapest, but quality etccc...
Got me thinking about the Ansett, Virgin, Quantus senario, when someone
wages a price war, ultimately someone ends up losing, as by running a
business on price cutting can only be sustained for short periods of time,
thus someone always ends up going out of business. Just a thought Cheers
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 10:12 am
Yep, I
have one of the above lead ropes. It just won't die. They're great. Only
problem with mine is that it's yellow and black and tends to look like a
snake! Other fantabulous lead rope is my Parelli 12 foot rope. Tough as,
soft as and a fantastic length. I've never bought another lead rope since
I had the parelli rope and the 2 coloured (about $18) rope as described
above.
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 10:29 am
I will
give those lead ropes my vote as well.
I have one that would be 5 or 6 years old.
Has been left out in the weather etc and is still strong.
I also have two of NH lead ropes as they look nice and strong yet they are
still soft.
Have only had them a few months but so far so good.
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 07:11 pm
They'll
just about outlast you Anna. I have been using the same ones for 13 years
now and you can imagine what they cop. Great product.
BUT: has anyone purchased the lovely (ping pong )hole punch. Aren't they
little beauties.
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 07:45 pm
if you
want a good fitting rug for ponies or all sizes, you cant beat rags for
nags/ they will custom make to your individual wants at no extra
cost/something rare these days, their phone no is in horse deals trade
directory, they dont make canvas rugs though
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 08:06 pm
Hey
Trixie their rugs are so good! but you can find them in the eq shop in
eques, thats where I found them and Julie is so helpfull
Monday,
March 25, 2002 - 08:38 pm
What
hole punches are these, HP?? I've bought about 3 hole punches, of the
revolving type, the latest costing $44 from a hardware store and guess
what, it was just as useless and crappy as the cheapies from the
saddleries. I'd LOVE to know about decent hole punches.
Tuesday,
March 26, 2002 - 12:08 am
Okay
guys do this lead reins have a brand name?? com'on share, was bringing in
feral tonight in dark with hell of a thunder storm going on, pulled on
lead rein I went one way he went the other
not
happy!
and Im with you LM - HP share which HolePunch? a decent one would be the
go.
And Trixie yes Rags for Nags - Julie is super! and we also got Happy Horse
Rugs & Dresscirlce in the Eq-Shop , 3 great business's all Aussie and
making great products
Tuesday,
March 26, 2002 - 01:21 am
As far
as johds go, are the Buckskin jods still being made?Wendy burton in
Montrose Vic . They were always well made, made to measure if required and
reasonably priced.
Tuesday,
March 26, 2002 - 09:05 am
dont
know anon, but I would kill for a decent pair of COMFORTABLE joddies, pull
on but with grip so I dont exit front door
My
lifes ambition to find joddies comfortable for me not some size 8 twig
Tuesday,
March 26, 2002 - 10:30 am
Wendy
Burton of Buckskin Jods still makes them and is still the best you can
buy! Shadow, give her a call, she makes them to measure and they fit! I am
a one of those twigs you refer to but my legs are too long for my body
so off
the rack never fitted in the leg length, it was like if you are small in
body your legs must be dwarfish. Wendy makes my leg length to actually
fit. Give her a try, promise you will not be disappointed.
Tuesday,
March 26, 2002 - 02:24 pm
The
ones they sell are substandard and for goodness sake, take them back and
get a refund. They revolve and won't stay lined up on the hole when you
squeeze. When I squeeze them with the farrier hand, they buckle sizeways
and that's the end.
The good ones are made in England. Forget who though.
The best lead ropes Sandy are the Parelli type ones that everyone has
copied. They must be 3.6metres and 12mm thick. They must have the big bull
clip that you have to pull outwards to open and the clip must not be tied
on with a loop, slipknot at the end of the rope. It must be threaded and
tucked back inside itself. Marine rope is the go. On special and yes at
Horseland sometimes for about $32. You can pay $80 or so. Last forever and
no horse has ever broken one on me, including breakers.
Tuesday,
March 26, 2002 - 02:50 pm
Don't
think they have a brand name, Sandy, but those lead ropes are usually in
the big 2's catalogues. I got a catalogue from Phil Oates Saddlery (SA)
yesterday with one in it. His phone number is 08 8371 4111 The lead rope
is item number 7, multi coloured lead @ $19.95 on page 15 of the catalogue
he has just sent out. It's available in navy/orange, cobalt/yellow,
grape/mist, mosaic/mist and silver/black. Let us know how you get on.
Der, I just got the ping pong joke, HP. I've had to resort to using proper
hole punches and hammer these days.
Bouquets to anyone who can put us on to a revolving punch that has some
grunt!
Tuesday,
March 26, 2002 - 06:48 pm
Lurch's
Mum - my hole punch is made in England. It was bought too long ago (two
years or so) to know who made it, but it was bought from one of the big
hardware stores (Dad is a contract builder - probably Hardware House). It
cost quite a bit $40 or so but it is terrific and works well.
Wednesday,
March 27, 2002 - 09:19 am
SANDY!!!
There are heaps of those lead ropes in the front pages of the new
Horseland 'Winter Colours' catalogue. They are obviously made by
WeatherBeeta as they are colour coordinated with their rug range.Note the
good strong clip, tho not as good as the origianal Parelli rope.
Wednesday,
March 27, 2002 - 10:17 am
One
problem with those plaited nylon ropes, although they are practically
indestructible, is that if you get one pulled through your hand you'll get
a very nasty burn from it. So keep that in mind if you attach one to a
flighty horse.
Do saddleries still have those slide-fastening headcollars? The buckle
ones don't last as well, with the holes getting frayed and the pointy part
of the buckle getting bent, the reinforced ones are worse with their rusty
and sharp bits. I have a selection of pony and cob size slide fastening
headcollars that are adjustable and last for ages, but I haven't seen them
in the shops for a while. Had to buy an ordinary buckle one for the
full-sized heads.
Wednesday,
March 27, 2002 - 01:50 pm
Jodie,don't
most ropes burn if the horse does a runner? I'd buy a rope halter and a
pair of gloves.That way , if the horse does yank the rein your hands will
be fine, and secondly with the rope halter (PP style), they yield better,
the buckles never wear out , cause there are none. You have to do the knot
under though, so that they can always be easily undone- get someone to
show you if you don't know what I mean.
Thursday,
March 28, 2002 - 10:58 pm
Hey!! I
got the Horseland cat and saw the ropes headed down but called into
Pakenham Produce and brought the same lead ropes for $12.95 each!! saved
7.00 bucks each, Actually ended up been a good afternoon went to the pub
for tea on the way home and won big time on the POKIES!! - first time Ive
won anything
so
there you go, anyone else that wants them ask for Linda 0359411844 at
Pakkie, she would do mail services for you
Friday,
March 29, 2002 - 10:18 am
Sandy,
bugger the lead ropes. Where did you have tea and which machine did you
play?
Friday,
March 29, 2002 - 02:55 pm
Thanks
Sandy! I need to get quite a few so thats a real saving, after reading the
posts here was going to pop down to h'land but hey shall give them a call.
And how much did you win
Your
shout!
Friday,
March 29, 2002 - 06:30 pm
Well we
are getting near the tonne.
Last week, one of Mrs. Horseproblems young pupils, purchased the Dublin
elastic sided Pony Club boots and the heel fell off.
So I guess I take back what I said early in this thread, unless it was old
stock. They need a kick up the Lord of the #$%^&
Friday,
March 29, 2002 - 07:11 pm
Lissa
at the Race Club in Pakenham and whispering! played the $1.00 machine
well
I saved 21.00 on the leads
and
Coco times my saving of 21 by 45 ...can see why I was sort of happy
Back to consumer I got a jacket from H'land yes fully rain proof, went out
to do Adelaide Royal [thanks for weather] it bucketed down, pulled up
hood, and yep was totally wet at the end of the day! took it back to
H'land and the girl said oh that could have been because I had the hood up
[okay wouldnt one think thats when you use a hood?] she suggested I try
next time leaving hood inside jacket and using a hat that was waterproof
and went on to try and sell me a hat!
Ive
still got the jacket, I use it as a wind breaker - I went down to Amry
Disposals and brought a super looking trecking jacket for 1/2 the price.
Couldnt be bothered fighting with them but in the end I just spend my
dollars elsewhere
Saturday,
March 30, 2002 - 11:09 am
I'm
another on the list of the pair of Dublin Pony Club Boots with only one
heel,though mine were a couple of months old before we lost the heel and
my husband has glued it back on,so far so good,
but this is the last time I will be buying Dublin,I think I will try
Baxter next time,anyone had any problems with these?
Saturday,
March 30, 2002 - 01:23 pm
Baxter
a good old name, had a pair for years then *sigh brought a pair of Dublin,
same story here
shall
go back to Baxter or Williams boots
Saturday,
March 30, 2002 - 04:59 pm
Baxters
are great. I have 3 pairs in various states of wear (I also wear them out
under jeans) and love them. Miles better than Dublin's, tougher and longer
lasting than RM's.
Saturday,
March 30, 2002 - 05:53 pm
I do
hope you have all taken them back. If you don't, you will not make a
difference and that won't help all of the other people who buy them.
Baxter are the go as an alternative. My Saddlery, who had about 30 Dublins
back with heels off, has assured me under the pump, that Baxter is a good
product.
What about next person who posts, start No. 2 in the series. This one is
getting a bit big. It would be good if the series could continue though,
as I feel this has been very good for those who, are very good. It has
been educational to me for highlighting other avenues and I am sure to
others. If any of the owners of the big Saddlery Chains have been reading
this thread, I am sure that they will take on board what their customers
are saying. This is not a case of one or two people having a shot at them,
it has been across the board and because the people who own such
businesses are professional business people, they should make changes. I
repeat, the activity of continuing to sell substandard product to
consumers, especially to unsuspecting consumers, does actually diminish
the financial viability of the Horse Industry itself. The very Industry
that they make their bread and butter from. Because people like us and the
other breakers and educators around this country keep busting their guts
to either prop up those falling or inject new ones in, those at the top
end of it never realize the damage that is done by short changing
participants in it.
Those who have been in the Industry longer, are smart enough to buy
elsewhere, more expensive, get custom made etc, but the Horse Industry
depends on the injection of new blood into it every day. It is therefore
quite immoral IMHO, to be serving up product to these uneducated members
of the horse world, which is a form of rip off.
If products self destruct inside 12 weeks, the consumer has to and does,
go and buy a new one. The Chains Stores, just sell them another one and so
the cycle continues. This is one of the major reasons why the Horse
Industry really never increases in size. It's participants drop out of the
bottom end of it like flies. Problem is, that only people who work in the
niche market that we and others do, see it happening.
Saturday,
March 30, 2002 - 08:33 pm
Good on
You Sandy, what a hoot!!!